LoveNotes: The Review...

[Jannah]

"Love Notes: Marriage and Family Life"
  taught by: Shaykh Yaser Birjas
http://www.almaghrib.org/ln.php[/color]

Ok I'm gonna try to write some thoughts iA....

For those who haven't attended... this is a VERY GOOD CLASS...more than good, i honestly feel sorry ie pity for the people who "chose" not to attend...to have a class like this in america for young people is like a karamah a miracle or something... it is soooo needed and it can soooo change how we all think, are, interact and affect us on all levels. so really... if it comes to your area GO... cds/tapes/notes whatever they are NOT THE SAME. Ever.

Ok so below are some thoughts for ppl who have attended the class... (other peeps i know you won't get it sorry...i'm not typing up my notes but someone else might if u ask them nicely ) and the things i didn't like were really very very very small on a few things compared to the overall 8 hours of class everyday, but i'm mentioning it here for discussion/thought)


What I liked:[/color]


* professionalism... this is almaghrib's theme song...but u can seriously see it... well organized...everything was prompt, announcement guy was always ready and prepared, everything had a good flow, everyone knew where to go, when to come back... beautiful books given to everyone.. the slides...the snacks, the fliers cards, the decorations, chocolates (did u try those brownies mmm)...the technology, i know some people are currently criticizing al-maghrib in various blogs for the amount they charge for their classes...but seriously... i mean seriously... muslims can afford it and all this stuff does cost money... they are not gettin rich or whatever for Allah's sake get over it this is the only way we're ever going to progress. once we get into this cycle of paying for stuff we will have better education, better classes, more scholars, more opportunities, etc.

* ok so, loved going over the theories of love by different scholars in islamic history, who knew islam had this stuff!!

* talking and philosophizing over what the definition of love really is... seriously priceless we can never get a discussion like this anywhere.

* loved when he said 'how many people heard a jumah khutbah on love?' and imagine going to your imam and saying 'i need ur help i'm in love'

* loved loved loved when he talked about RAS saw's love for a'ishah and the wives and all his stories... many ppl said this was the highlight of the class and i know many of the sisters were tearing up

* soooo needed... the islamic version of 'men are from mars, women are from venus'... the whole different languages of love...excellently done...totally probably just saved a whole bunch of marriages right there and made a whole bunch better!

* liked the discussion on homosexuality... it was about time someone brought it up

* liked that he emphasized polygamy was not a joke or a game but very serious and about responsibility

* OMG does he have a sense of humor... SO FUNNY... hilarious...everyone was in stitches

* the group activities really gave the brothers a chance to tell sisters their point of view and vice versa... i personally really learned a lot from it and was actually quite surprised too...veryyyy useful exercise to experience, u have to be there in the group and hear all the answers etc.

* list of loving actions that both groups came up with should be taped on everyones refrigerator....what a revelation

* very straightforward point he made over brothers marrying girls overseas... "for every guy that marries a girl overseas, a sister is left here unmarried... do the math". whoa... no one thought about it like that before.

* explanation of how love transitions and changes thru the various stages of initial meeting/engagement/marriage/after children very interesting

* discussion on marriage was done in a different way than the usual linear way it's talked about in islamic books...like starting with things like asking ppl what they thought marriage/the purpose of marriage is... almost like thinking/teaching about it outside the box...it was very refreshing

* answered the question of how much should you tell your prospective spouse

* liked the emphasis on marriage contracts and how it was halal and fine to put conditions and using examples throughout of things that could/should be put in by women otherwise such-and-such would happen

*  like how he said 'be careful about going against ur parents, one day u'll need them...' soo true

* liked how 'sexual intercourse', 'physical pleasure' and other eyebrow raising words and things (bathing together?!, pda, menses) were talked about clearly and openly. i know euphemisms like 'relations' are nice for haya...but to talk plainly and openly here on these subjects was nice

* zaani for zaani hadith explained finally!

* showed clearly how islamic inheritance laws are very just and fair

* i could have stood up and said takbir when he said "if she doesn't answer the husband's call that doesn't mean he can rape her" and that "she also has a right to call her husband to bed"

* also liked when talking about nushooz -- that the man's nushooz was mentioned and explained as well, not just the wife's

* ar-rijaal qawamooona verse drummed in to everyone the right way and context

* last words about how learning about this topic/these interesting hadiths and learning that rasulullah saw was a human like us can bring us closer to him in a new way was very touching and inspiring!!




What I didn't like:


* the only real issue i had was in the "characteristics desirable in a bride and characteristics desriable in a groom". i mean really....after we just did an exercise where the question was asked why people are delaying marriage these days and one of the major reasons that kept coming up was that people were too picky and unrealistic in their standards/expectations, to then tell brothers and sisters they should be looking for all these things and should "not lower their standards" and only compromise when they absolutely had to??

* i also totally didn't find any affinity with the things that were listed that people should be looking for... like "beauty","fertility", "virginity", "big age difference", "easy mahr", "contentment". i think someone asked the question... what about all the sisters/brothers that have a sinful past, are not so young, not so beautiful, maybe not fertile (how do u know this before?), not so happy and go lucky, wants a decent mahr which is her right, etc. i know these are coming from hadith/ulema but i think each one really needed to be explained a little more, expanded upon and the reasons and conditions behind each one given... it would have been better and more acceptable. for example virginity because then both are new and learning together at the same level or beauty in the sense that ppl should have some type of physical attraction and this is good for the marriage. that way people understand the reasoning and exceptions. also this is important is so that people don't go back and say "well the sheikh said i should be looking for these 6 things" which may or may not be what he's looking for/produce a successful marriage for him/her. maybe talk about/add some things ppl should look for in this day and age which help produce happy marriages... like compatability in certain things.

* telling the brothers they should look for sisters 4-5 years younger than them because they are immature and have a desperate need to be in authority and control over her!? he later even mentioned that this was problematic because if men weren't marrying sisters their age, and since they were delaying marriage for various reasons and sisters were nowadays delaying marriage to finish their educaton then what was going to happen to those sisters? it's circular because then now we are implying that sisters should choose between marriage or education? because if they wait they'll be skipped over by the guys marrying girls 4-5 years younger than them.

* in discussing ways ppl get married...i think there are a lot more halal ways... ppl nowadays meet each other at islamic conferences, over the internet, at the university, at their job.. through halal speed-dating... all kinds of modern things... it's not just the traditional cousin marriage or arranged marriage anymore... so these other ways need to be added and discussed.

* did not like the emphasis that love is always physical and based on image before developing into anything else... are brothers so shallow? is it not possible for love to exist in any other way?

* discouraging brothers from marrying "career women". saying marriages with "career women" are not successful and also not defining what is meant by "career woman". also telling the sisters that all brothers are really looking for "housewives".  true?

* am kind of on the fence about the emphasis on "celibate marriage" (having the nikah and being legally married, but waiting till later to have the wedding party and consummating the marriage)...i understand that this is a good thing for some people who are finishing school, have other reasons to wait... but i don't think it's a solution to the problem of 'ppl can't control themselves and would have gfs or bfs otherwise'. ppl who can't control themselves and fall into temptation are not ready to be married!!! the solution is not just to marry them off early into a "celibate marriage". they need to be educated islamically and learn how to control themselves instead.

* i know they don't want to change the mood of the course by talking about divorce... but i think a mention of it would be important for people to know what basic steps there are for working out problems before it gets to that point and if they can't, when should people get divorced?...how bad should their problems be so they give up?... when should they go for counseling? etc

* didn't think it was clear about the hanafi opinion on "forced marriages"... most ppl didn't hear the part where the girl can annull the marriage once she hits puberty!

* naqis/aql hadith not clearly explained and why was it brought up in marital rights?

* on the "rights of the husband"...certain things need to be defined more in-depth... what does it mean to say the wife has to "obey" the husband... what does "protecting his honor" mean...what does it mean he has the right to "chastise her"... when how? how does one "serve" a husband? more examples and conditions and exceptions perhaps.

* i enjoyed the categories of marriage... i think that was very very interesting... i think this should be expanded and described and people should understand that all the categories are halal and that they can choose one of them and they should recognize which one they are and look for someone who has the same category in mind.

* on the topic of wedding rings he said that it shouldn't be part of the ceremony itself because its part of the legal xtian marriage ceremony and then said its fine for sisters to wear wedding/any rings but discouraged brothers from wearing 'wedding' rings but it was ok to wear other rings? not sure about the reasoning...but one has to take into account it is the custom/culture here among muslims and non-muslims to use the ring as a symbol of whether or not a sister or brother is married or not!! and people do look for them so perhaps it is important if only to protect yourself and your spouse!

* the "extra session" on intimacy... needed to be part of the main even if very briefly...but maybe i say that because we had to catch our bus and could not stay!

[sugarqueen]

Good review jannah!

But i still have a few more questons..

How many showed up?

How was the diversity?

How was the guy to girl ratio?

How was young people to old people ratio?
  young being = college age/ old being = working/grad school

How was the class set up in relation to guys and girls?

[Muslim]

this is a VERY GOOD CLASS...more than good,

Told you so 

[kba]

I couldnt make the class when it came to my city, maybe I can listen to the CD, but the notes are not available yet (Emaan Rush).
I did attend LOG 101. I would recommend it, I heard that class and Purifcation Act are the 2 good foundation classes.

[Jannah]

wsalam,

kba i read all the notes before the class and i have to say that they're nothing like the class!! now when i read them back i can see it... but again listening and experiencing it is very different.


How many showed up? that lecture hall was packed!!! i mean like every row, every seat almost!! capacity was about 300 people i would say

How was the diversity? it was very diverse... we met some girls from burma, some american converts, african american girls, quite alot of arab girls a large proportion, the usual desi...most were from nyc, nj but there were also ppl there from ohio, florida, dc...from the guys i don't know there were just sooo many and i was lowerin' my gaze lol i think mostly desi?? not sure maybe a bro can post...

How was the guy to girl ratio? the first night there were 2/3 guys and 1/3 girls and it was kind of scary... but then after that it was more like 125 guys 175 girls

How was young people to old people ratio?  young being = college age/ old being = working/grad school
i would say most people were college age, there were some working people and even a sprinkling of much older people like parents or really older people and there were some really young girls and guys like 15-18 still in highschool!

How was the class set up in relation to guys and girls? brothers were in front, the first 5-6 rows and the sisters were in the rows behind that. each had a different door and one group would leave first because there were just so many people. i didn't see any macking!!! the worst i saw were some married couples out in the hall talking intensely to each other (maybe discussing what we just learned?) haha

this is a VERY GOOD CLASS...more than good,

Told you so 

dude i knew it was a good class from all the feedback i just didn't want to go initially because of personal reasons... i didn't want to feel like the pathetic single person... but it was ok cuz there were 300 other people there so u just get lost in the crowd

[Faizah]

As salaamu alaikum.

Sounds like it was beneficial.  Although from reading your notes/thoughts it does seem like it did lend itself to some confusion if on the one hand one shouldn't have unrealistic standards but on the other hand they should have high expectations and standards.    And I agree, advising brothers not to marry career women (by which I would image means women in professional, meaningful careers that aren't necessary traditionally female professions).  Guess I go back to the thought that if there weren't female physicians, what would happen to women's health care?  If there were no female teachers/professions, what would happen to women's education?  If there weren't female seamstresses/tailors, what would happen to women's clothing (and let's not suggest each learn to sew....)

While it's good to hear about the diversity of attendees, we shouldn't focus on that since we are all Muslim and again, we can't guage what someone is just by looking; if we want to know we have to allow the individual to self-identify (okay, now I sound like I'm at work - sorry).

As salaamu alaikum

Fa'izah

[sugarqueen]

wsalam,

kba i read all the notes before the class and i have to say that they're nothing like the class!! now when i read them back i can see it... but again listening and experiencing it is very different.


How many showed up? that lecture hall was packed!!! i mean like every row, every seat almost!! capacity was about 300 people i would say

How was the diversity? it was very diverse... we met some girls from burma, some american converts, african american girls, quite alot of arab girls a large proportion, the usual desi...most were from nyc, nj but there were also ppl there from ohio, florida, dc...from the guys i don't know there were just sooo many and i was lowerin' my gaze lol i think mostly desi?? not sure maybe a bro can post...

How was the guy to girl ratio? the first night there were 2/3 guys and 1/3 girls and it was kind of scary... but then after that it was more like 125 guys 175 girls

How was young people to old people ratio?  young being = college age/ old being = working/grad school
i would say most people were college age, there were some working people and even a sprinkling of much older people like parents or really older people and there were some really young girls and guys like 15-18 still in highschool!

How was the class set up in relation to guys and girls? brothers were in front, the first 5-6 rows and the sisters were in the rows behind that. each had a different door and one group would leave first because there were just so many people. i didn't see any macking!!! the worst i saw were some married couples out in the hall talking intensely to each other (maybe discussing what we just learned?) haha

Intresting!...and maybe when i get over my personal hatred for love and marriage at the moment ill attend haha

[AbdulBasir]

Thanx for the review!

After reading it, I still can't figure out how "Love Notes" differs from the "Fiqh of Love" course also offered by al-Maghrib. It seems nearly identical! Maybe more of an abridged version perhaps...

[sugarqueen]

Thanx for the review!

After reading it, I still can't figure out how "Love Notes" differs from the "Fiqh of Love" course also offered by al-Maghrib. It seems nearly identical! Maybe more of an abridged version perhaps...

I heard that it the difference is "love notes" is just advice and stuff and "fiqh of love" is more like fiqh pertaning to love and marriage....is this true jannah? did Love Notes provide the fiqh as well?

[Jannah]

Assalaam alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu,

I don't know much about their classes and divisions, but I believe that would make sense. This class was more an overview about love and marriage and the fiqh of love is perhaps more into the fiqh rules. Sh. Yaser did go over a lot of fiqh rules though and answered a lot of questions.

Br. AbdulBasir I know you're a big fan of audio CDs and stuff but really you don't get the same experience. To be in the class, meet other people, see the expressions of the teacher. Hear the audiences boos and ooohs and aaahs and awwws the laughter, going through the group exercises and hearing each person in the group's experience and hearing all the questions and answers and being able to ask your own out loud, written or private with the Shaikh. Discussing what was said with your friends and in the evenings at night over dinner and tea. I just highly encourage classes over any tapes or cds. And I have no doubt they will censor some of the things that went on in our class on a CD. (especially some brothers comments it did get rowdy sometimes) Anyway, Alhamdulillah... if you absolutely cannot take a class the CD is something good people can resort too.

[owais]

How was the diversity?

Most of the Brothers were 'Desi'.  I felt that there were more college/ highschool aged guys, but there were working/married men as well.  I recommend it too. 

To be in the class, meet other people, see the expressions of the teacher. Hear the audiences boos and ooohs and aaahs and awwws the laughter, going through the group exercises and hearing each person in the group's experience and hearing all the questions and answers and being able to ask your own out loud, written or private with the Shaikh.

Deffinatly take any chance you get to attend an Al Maghrib course.  You never know when another one will come back.  They don't ever repeat the same class in the same location.  www.almaghrib.org

Its a degree program, the degree will go towards a Bachelors in Islamic Studies if you wish to pursue that in your future insha Allah.  So its not just any course dudes.  Very awesome step for Muslims in the west, Alhumdulillah its inspiring.

I'll be typing up my notes insha Allah on the website: http://alhidayastudent.wordpress.com/

[Jannah]

Walaikum salaam warahmatullah wabarakatuhu,

on the one hand one shouldn't have unrealistic standards but on the other hand they should have high expectations and standards.

yeah that's what i didn't quite understand... he later said don't lower ur standards but compromise so i guess that's a good statement???!

as for the diversity... ur right u can't really tell what ppl are.. those burmese girls i would have thought were desi until they told us, but in general the ppl we met and talked to and asked where they were from etc made it seem very diverse

[zubaida]

 

Wow, you typed this up pretty fast...the weekend is starting to catch up to me. I still need to organize my thoughts/notes.

How was the guy to girl ratio? the first night there were 2/3 guys and 1/3 girls and it was kind of scary...

I really thought it was the opposite. I felt there were wayyyyy more females than males. Maybe this goes back to what he was saying, "women sacrifice more in a marriage." and just the fact that there were so many of us there, shows how much we are willing to put in a marriage.

i didn't want to feel  like the pathetic single person...

omg me too. i was seriously thinking of showing up in niqab. i didn't want to be seen; it felt so cheesy at first to be talking about love & marriage, but i'm glad i went.

[Jannah]

Walaikum salaam warahmatullah wabarakatuhu,

yeah that was just the first night friday... after that there were more sisters for sure...

i wrote everything down cuz i knew i'd forget later

[lala marcy]

 

Zubaida, did we meet you?

I havent reviewed my notes and stuff- but right now at this moment- I dont feel the class was 'all that' I thought it would be. I mean, a lot of this stuff is straight up 'muslim common sense'. But I guess some things need to be said, and some things need to be pounded upon some peoples' heads so they get the message.

Granted I did get a better idea on the Islamic stance on this whole love bit. I just feel something was missing?

Overall on a scale of 1-10, I'd give it a 7...I guess thats a good grade. Decent at best.

But there were a lot of 'duh' moments. The challenge is putting all this knowledge into practice...


Until later
peace

[zubaida]

Zubaida, did we meet you?

I met Jannah on Sunday. She said she was going to introduce me to you later on but my friend and I had to run out of there and catch our train. The only regrets I have from the weekend is not hanging out more. We were usually tired by the end of the class but the lunch break was perfect but I didn't take advantage of it.

[Jannah]

salam,

here are some excerpts form Ibn Hazm's controversial book on the nature of love called "Ring of the Dove" which I found rather interesting. The whole text is quite long, so read these first

ws

=================================================

Of the saints and learned doctors of the faith who lived in past ages and times long ago, some there are whose love lyrics are sufficient testimony to their passion, so that they require no further notice. It will be enough to mention only one name: 'Ubaid Allah Ibn `Abd Allah' Ibn 'Utba Ibn Masud was famous for his tender verses, and he, as we remember, was one of the celebrated Seven Jurists of Medina. As for Ibn `Abbas, a single sentence once uttered by him amply dispenses with any need for further quotation; he pronounced the weighty judgment, " This man was slain by love: there is therefore no case for blood wit or retaliation."
      Concerning the nature of Love men have held various and divergent opinions, which they have debated at great length. For my part I consider Love as a conjunction between scattered parts of souls that have become divided in this physical universe, a union effected within the substance of their original sublime element.

If the cause of Love were physical beauty, the consequence would be that no body defective in any shape or form would attract admiration; yet we know of many a man actually preferring the inferior article, though well aware that another is superior, and quite unable to turn his heart away from it. Again, if Love were due to a harmony of characters, no man would love a person who was not of like purpose and in concord with him. We therefore conclude that Love is something within the soul itself.
      Sometimes, it is true, Love comes as a result of a definite cause outside the soul, but then it passes away when the cause itself disappears: one who is fond of you because of a certain circumstance will turn his back on you when that motive no longer exists.

This statement is confirmed by the fact that Love, as we know, is of various kinds. The noblest sort, of Love is that which exists between persons who love each other in God either because of an identical zeal for the righteous work upon which they are engaged, or as the result of a harmony in sectarian belief and principles, or by virtue of a common possession of some noble knowledge. Next to this is the love, which springs from kinship; then the love of familiarity and the sharing of identical aims; the love of comradeship and acquaintance; the love, which is rooted in a benevolent regard for one's fellow; the love that results from coveting the loved one's worldly elevation; the love that is based upon a shared secret which both must conceal; love for the sake of getting enjoyment and satisfying desire; and passionate love, that has no other cause but that union of souls to which we have referred above.
       All these varieties of Love come to an end when their causes disappear, and increase or diminish with them; they are intensified according to the degree of their proximity, and grow languid as their causes draw further and further away. The only exception. is the Love of true passion, which has the mastery of the soul: this is the love, which passes not away save with death.

All this proves that true Love is a spiritual approbation, a fusion of souls.

My theory is further proved by the fact that you will never find two persons in love with one another without there being some likeness and agreement of natural attributes between them. This condition must definitely obtain, even if only to a small degree; the more numerous the resemblances, the greater will be their congeneity and the firmer their affection. It is only necessary to look for this, and you will see it quite plainly on all hands. The Messenger of Allah confirmed the matter when he said, " Spirits are regimented battalions those which know one another associate familiarly together, while those which do not know one another remain at variance." A saint is reported as having stated, " The spirits of believers know one another."

http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/hazm/dove/ringdove.html

[Jannah]

 

Sh. Yaser the shaikh who did the above class spoke at Stanford yesterday and the nice MSA recorded it and put it on google!!! Good job....

Islam: What's love got to do with it?


Here it is:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8768692787900377327&hl=en