[MADRASA] Khatams, "Kitab ar-Ruh" of Ibn al-Qayyim?
[MADRASA] Khatams, "Kitab ar-Ruh" of Ibn al-Qayyim?
Kashif
07/10/01 at 00:31:15
assalaamu alaikum

Does anyone have an article on why khatams are wrong? I don't need something that has "bid'ah! bid'ah" scrawled over it, but something that explains kindly and softly why it is an unacceptable form of worship.

Thank you.

Kashif
Wa Salaam

Re: article request
haaris
11/08/00 at 08:18:33
Salaam,

If you could post it up here, I'd be grateful too.

Jazaka' Allahum Khairun.
Re: article request
Arsalan
11/08/00 at 09:39:38
Assalamu alaikum,

What do you mean by "khatam"?
Re: article request
Kashif
11/08/00 at 10:33:47
A khatam is an event (usually occurring when someone dies) when close family & friends get together and read the Qur'an with the intention of passing the reward of the recitation to the deceased.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: article request
Arsalan
11/08/00 at 11:12:56
Assalamu alaikum,

Kashif, Arshad posted something on this some time ago.  Check out [url=http://www.jannah.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=madrasa&action=display&num=562]this thread[/url].  You'll have to scroll about halfway down to Arshad's post with the subject line "Deeds that Benefit the Departed Soul."  

Wassalamu alaikum.
NS
Re: article request
bhaloo
11/08/00 at 11:20:29
slm

The majority of the scholars of Ahl-al-Sunnah agree that it is permissible and this is the most correct view.    I had actually posted up the proof for this here some weeks (months) back, you can search for it.  I specifically cited Ibn Qayyim in his book, the Soul's Journey , and also referenced Fiqh us Sunnah volume 4 number 86.  I don't have Ibn Qayyim's book here with me now, but its in some other thread in the  message board.

Fiqh-us-Sunnah
Fiqh 4.86
The Deeds that Benefit the Departed Souls and Proffering Reward for Good Deeds to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him)
There is consensus that a deceased person benefits from all good deeds for which he or she in his or her life might have been a cause. Abu Hurairah reported, "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, 'When a person dies all his good deeds cease except for three: a continuous act of charity, beneficial knowledge, and a righteous son who prays for him'.'' (Muslim, and the Sunan) Also Abu Hurairah reported, "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, 'The righteous works that continue to benefit a believer after his death include the knowledge that he taught and spread among others, a righteous son whom he leaves behind, or a copy of the Qur'an that he bequeaths to his inheritors, or a mosque that he builds, or a rest house that he builds for the wayfarers, or a canal of water that he digs for the benefit of others, or a charity that he gives out of his property during his life while he is sound of health. He will continue to receive reward for all these even after his death.' (Ibn Majah)
Jarir ibn Abdallah reported: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: 'Whoever introduces a good practice in Islam will get its reward and the rewards for all those who follow these practices after him, without any loss to their reward. And whoever introduces a bad practice in Islam will acquire its sin and the sins of all those who practice it, without any decrease in their sins."
An account of the righteous deeds performed by others that continue to be beneficial to the deceased is given in detail below:

2.      Charity. An-Nawawi has recorded that Muslim scholars agree that charity benefits the deceased person and its reward reaches the deceased whether it is given by his or own son or by someone else. This is based on a report from Ahmad, Muslim, and others from Abu Hurairah that, "A man said to the Prophet, peace be upon him, ' My father died leaving wealth but no will. Would he be pardoned if we gave charity on his behalf?' He said: 'Yes."' It is also reported from Al-Hasan from Sa'd ibn 'Ubadah that "his mother died and he said, 'O Messenger of Allah, my mother has died. Should I give charity on her behalf?' He said: 'Yes.' I said: 'What is the best charity?' He said, 'Offering people a drink of water'." Al-Hasan said: "This is the drinking place of the family of Sa'd in Madinah." This is reported by Ahmad, Nasa'i, and others. Giving charity in the graveyard is not permissible and giving it during the funeral is disliked.
3.      Fasting. This is based on a report by Bukhari and Muslim from Ibn 'Abbas who said, "A man came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said, 'My mother has died without making up for a missed month of fasting. Can I fast on her behalf? ' The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, ' Would you pay her debt if she owed someone?' The man said, 'Yes.' The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, 'Allah is more deserving of payment in settlement of His debt'."
4.      Performing the Pilgrimage (Hajj). This is based on a report by Bukhari from Ibn 'Abbas that "a woman of the Juhainah tribe came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said, 'My mother had vowed to perform pilgrimage, but she died before she could fulfill her vow. Should I do it on her behalf?' The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, 'Yes. Perform Hajj on her behalf. Would you not pay the debt of your mother if she had owed someone? Fulfill it. Allah is more deserving of receiving payment for what is due to Him'."
5.      Prayer (salah). This is based on a report by Ad-Darqutni who said that "a man asked, 'O Allah's Messenger! I had parents whom I served while they lived. How can I be good to them after their death? ' The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, 'Verily, among the good deeds that you can do after their death is to offer prayer (salah) for them when you pray for yourself and to fast for them when you fast for yourself'."


6.      Recitation of the Qur'an. This is beneficial to the deceased according to the opinion of the majority of the scholars among the ahl al-sunnah.


An-Nawawi said, "The most well-known position of the Shafi'i school is that this does not benefit the deceased." Ahmad ibn Hanbal and a group of Shafi' i scholars hold that it does benefit the deceased . The reciter has an option. He may supplicate for the deceased to be rewarded for the recitation, saying: "O Allah! Grant the reward of what I recited to so-and-so."
Ibn Qudamah in al-Mughni stated, "Ahmad ibn Hanbal said, 'The deceased will receive the reward for every good done on his behalf. This is proved by textual evidence found on this subject.
The fact that Muslims in every city gather to recite the Qur'an for the benefit of the deceased and that they have been doing so without any disagreement or disapproval show that there is consensus on this subject'."

Those who hold that the deceased benefits by the recitation of others make it conditional upon the reciter not to accept any payment for his recitation. If the reciter is paid for reciting, it is unlawful for both the giver and the receiver, and he shall have no reward for his reciting. Abd Ar Rahman ibn Shibl reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Recite the Qur'an, and do good deeds .... Do not neglect it, nor be extreme in it. Do not make it a means of living nor a source of your wealth.'' (Reported by Ahmad, At-Tabarani, and Al-Baihaqi)
Ibn al-Qayyim said, "Worship is of two types: financial and physical. The Prophet, peace be upon him, has informed us that because charity (sadaqah) benefits the deceased, all other acts of charity will also benefit the deceased, and that because fasting on his behalf benefits the deceased, all other physical acts of worship will likewise benefit the deceased. Similarly the Prophet, peace be upon him, informed us that the reward of making Hajj, which involves both physical and financial sacrifice, does indeed benefit the deceased. Thus these three types of beneficial acts of worship are supported by both the revealed texts and reason."
Re: article request
Kashif
11/08/00 at 12:07:59
Is this the "Kitab ar-Ruh" of Ibn al-Qayyim that you are referring to?

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: article request
bhaloo
11/08/00 at 14:52:00
slm

yes, that would be the one.
Re: article request
Kashif
11/08/00 at 18:06:27
assalaamu alaikum

I was under the impression that there is major doubt over whether this book is actually authored by Imam Ibn al-Qayyim?

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: article request
jannah
11/08/00 at 20:34:40
Kashif where'd u hear that? We're learning from the book with br mokhtar. I can ask him next class???
Re: article request
Kashif
11/09/00 at 04:33:05
assalaamu alaikum

My teacher Sh. Suhaib mentioned it, and he wasn't the only one. But at the same time, i noticed that Sh. Mnajjid quotes from the book in at least one of his fatawa.

I'll investigate further insha'llah, and yes please ask Imam Mukhtar too.

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: article request
humble_muslim
11/09/00 at 13:40:38
Is that Sh Suhaib Hassan ?
Re: article request
Kashif
11/09/00 at 18:46:09
Nope its Suhaib Hasan (with one 's')

Kashif
Wa Salaam
NS
Re: article request
assing
11/09/00 at 19:32:12
There is a book about the bio. of ibn Al Qayyim by Abdullah jar an anabi, and he mentions amongst the 70+ book ibn Qayyim wrote was this kitab ar ruh, to futher prove its authenticy of authorship by ibn Qayyim, he {ibn Qayyim} mention this book in another book he has named "Jala' al ifham fee as salat wa salaam ala' khair al'anaam", and ibn Al Maad mention this book in his book "shazarat ad dhahab" and Al Alusee also talked about kitab ar ruh in his book "Ijla' al aynain".  
NS
Re: article request
bhaloo
11/09/00 at 19:39:37
slm

I had come across a few other sources using/mentioning Ibn Qayyim's Kitab-ur-Ruh.  I'm planning on ordering Medicine of the Prophet (SAW) (and a few more), another book by Ibn Qayyum, tomorrow insha'Allah.
My mistake
Kashif
11/10/00 at 04:36:33
assalaamu alaikum

I should really research before i make comments. Anyhow, this is the result of my research:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is common to hear from students of knowledge that Ibn al-Qayyim did not author "al-Ruh" or he wrote it before meeting Hafidh Ibn Taimiyya. One of his biographers suggested he wrote the book in his youth before he had matured in his writing.

But researching scholars generally agree:

(1) the book was definitely compiled by him.
(2) he wrote it after having met with Ibn Taimiyya.

This conclusion is reached based on several facts, some of them are:

(1) many 'ulama who discussed Ibn al-Qayyim's writings like Ibn hajr,
al-Suyuti, al-Shawkani, Haji Khalifa, al-Baghdadi, al-'Aalusi, and others
have attributed this book to him and did not mention otherwise.

(2) Ibn al-Qayyim himself referred to 'al-Ruh' in his other works like 'al-Tibyaan' and 'Jala' al-Afhaam.'

(3) Allama al-Baqaa'e, student of Ibn Hajr testified to this book being authored by Ibn al-Qayyim by summarising it under the title, 'Sirr al-Ruh' which is about half the size of the original.

(4) In at least ten passages of 'al-Ruh' Ibn al-Qayyim refers to Ibn Taimiyya by name, and mentions his chosen opinions (ikhtiyaraat).

And Allah knows best.
NS
Re: article request
haaris
11/10/00 at 08:55:22
Salaam,

Okay, so clarify the issue for me, can I ask if any of you are familiar with this type of affair:

on a certain date (be it the anniversary of the death of a family member or a certain number of days after the death of such a person) the family sits together, remembers the deceased, says a duah for them and then passes around a glass of milk each member of the family drinking a sip before passing it on.

Does this ring a bell with anyone?  Is it in accordance with the Sunnah?  If not, does anyone have any hints on how I can politely tell my in-laws that I don't want to take part without seeming as though I don't respect their family properly?

Thanks
Re: article request
Saleema
11/10/00 at 13:45:21
Assalamoalykum,

Haris--Good place to start searching for this tradition would be to look at Hindu traditions about death. Have you guys ever heard of what is called the "chaliswan?" After 40 days of a person's death, the family gets together to read the Qur'an, etc and give food on behalf of the dead person. To me that is clearly bidah. A lot of these practices were introduced in Islam by other cultures, or the people who converted to Islam didn't leave those traditions.

Giving food to people on behalf of the dead person is a good thing--but if it is given to the *poor* and the *needy*. People who have these things, most of the time, invite family memebers and friends who are well fed and so it beats the whole purpose of giving "sadqah."


Just tell your in laws that until you are sure that this practice isn't against the Sunnah you won't join them. That's what I would say, and I cant' thin of anything else.

wassalam
Re: article request
bhaloo
11/10/00 at 14:55:18
slm

Yeah this 3rd day and 40th day mourning doesn't have any basis in the Quran or authentic Sunnah.

Dr. Siddiqi (president of ISNA) said that conveying the reward of one's good deeds to others or Isal Thawab is  recognized by most of the jurists of Islam. The good deeds bring blessings of Allah and we can  pray to Allah to convey these blessings to others also. There are many Ahadith on this subject.  But reciting the Qur'an on the third day after the death or on the fortieth day etc. is not mentioned in the Qur'an or the Sunnah.

I haven't heard of this milk drinking business.  I wonder where that came from? ???  
NS
Re: article request
chachi
11/14/00 at 18:57:56

Akhi i follow a general rule ..if the muslims in a area where there have been alims in the past do a islamic thing they have been doing for generations and that isn't on the surface islamically incorrect then by all means accept it...this is because 1) knowledge decreases over time 2) the hadith are not the sunna of the prophet the practice of the prophet is the practice of the umma which was taught to the tabi'yeen by the sahabi eg imam hasan al basri, thus when people nowadays use the hadith to attack the sunna it is problematic because the hadith relate to a particular event or series of events whereas the practice of the sahabi is till the day of judgement
Re: article request
haaris
11/15/00 at 09:14:47
Asalaamu aleikoum chachi,

Long time no post!  Jazaka' Allahum khairun for your comment.  My problem is that I have neither an in-depth knowledge of the sunnah (however defined) but I am aware of certain practices that are definitely cultural.  For example, my father-in-law has an aversion to eating beef.  Whereas I see beef as one of the finest meats (a cultural norm itself!), he sees it as little more than repulsive.  When I asked him why, he acknowledged that it was probably his upbringing: a result of the influence of hindus in India.

I know that some brothers are wont to disapprove of many Asian practices as "biddah", without fully understanding them.  I don't want to fall into this trap but I also want to ensure that I don't partake in any ceremonies that are not Islamic.

Perhaps I'm straying into a different debate here: given that our religion has been perfected by the Prophet (saws), when do cultural practices infringe on this perfection?  Perhaps I should just leave it ...


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